hud rent calculator

thank you. How much rent do you pay if you live in Section 8, HUD Housing, Public Housing, Rural Rental Assistance, or have a Housing Voucher? For example, HUD sets the fair market rent for a one-bedroom apartment in the Columbus, Ohio, metro area at $616, as of 2011. Request in-depth assistance with implementing a HUD-funded program. If all the utilities are included in the rent, the rent to the owner and the gross rent will be the same. 1024 CFR 5.630(b)(2)(ii)(b) 1124 CFR 5.630(b)(1) (Tip: Not Who You Think! If you have a live in aide, there are may be other rules and programs that can help you. Child care expenses can be excluded from income if the child care allows a family member to do any of the following: work, look for work, participate in training or education. I have not accepted the job yet. 🌸 These policies lower the amount that you pay. <> i live in Illinois, is your rent based on 30% of your annual income or 30% of your monthly income. The months' length. Some tenants have taken their Housing Authorities to court over these rules (and won!). Doctor Visits. In most circumstances, your rent will be 30 percent of your monthly adjusted income; HUD covers the other 70 percent. I can’t find an independant third party to do it either. 1 0 obj I am going to report the change in income when approved. How High Can the Rent Be if I Have a Housing Voucher? You may also be interested in this list of facebook groups where you can share information, advice, and stories with other people who are disabled: https://howtogeton.wordpress.com/2019/08/02/facebook-groups/. Assisted living units. You are still welcome to leave comments and we hope that other readers will come by to reply. The information listed below provides information on the type of data that is collected and the instruments … Calculate any rent in excess of HUD's fair market rent for your area. Ten Secrets for People with Live-In Aides, Low Income Heating Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP) can lower your utility bills and will not impact your rent. endobj Grocery Delivery. RDE Systems, LLC, makers of eCOMPAS and e2Community are pleased to offer a web-based tool to help housing case managers calculate tenant rent and subsidy payments for the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development's (HUD) Housing Opportunities for People With AIDS (HOPWA) and Health and Human Services' Ryan White … Section 8 Rent Calculator How to Figure out what you pay in rent The amount of subsidy the Housing Authority will pay on your behalf is determined by your income and the Housing Authority Payment Standard. Do not count as income or assets. But only a very tiny amount! How Can I Get Emergency or Immediate Housing. 2 0 obj If you fill the appropriate fields of our prorated rent calculator, you will receive the same value. You may request an additional bedroom for your aide. Change ), You are commenting using your Twitter account. Your income is $1,000, you pay $300. If someone in your household is working, your portion of the rent can be much lower if you participate in a self-sufficiency programs. I have a section 8 voucher in NYC. Earnings from children under age 18 do not count. Here’s How to Document Medical Expenses. If utilities are not included in your lease, you will automatically get a utility allowance. You may face some fees when you first move in, including: copies of birth certificates, state IDs, security deposits, and utility deposits. In some cases there are programs that can assist with this. I will also share a link below, some of our readers have been successful in negotiating down medical debt, but if you have already paid the bill and now need to pay off the credit card, then I’m guessing it’s too late for that one? For example: The 2017 Fair Market Rent for a one-bedroom home in Rochester, NY is $737 per month. https://howtogeton.wordpress.com/get-help-or-file-complaints-for-hud-housing-problems-disability/. HUD has many other income exclusions, including Food Stamps, Liheap Utility Assistance, Americorp Payments, and a long list of (mostly obscure) other programs. Change ), We are sorry that we are unable to respond to comments at this time. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Step 6 It is exactly what it says it is: $10 and no strings attached. if not…, if it’s a job that is short term or sporadic, not monthly it might not count. 🌸 If you continue to have problems: How to Get Help or File Complaints for Housing Problems. Some owners also purchase homeowners' warranty. Here’s how it works: HUD will multiply your countable assets by .06%. A two-bedroom in Rochester is $915 per month. If they won’t give it to you, perhaps contact supervisors or HUD field office? Who Gets Medical Expense Deductions? The first step in determining the voucher amount, is to calculate the Fair Market Rent for the area. Read on. Is there a way that this debt could be considered by NYCHA to reduce my portion of rent? 🌸 Your housing authority changes their policy on bedroom size or payment standards in your area dropped down. However, if the rent determined under this paragraph is higher than the applicable rent under 24 CFR 92.252 (a), then the maximum rent for units under this paragraph is that calculated under 24 CFR 92.252 (a). The rules on this page apply to HUD Housing including Housing Vouchers, Public Housing, and apartments funded by HUD. Earnings from children age 18+ may not count, if child is full time student. Take a look here: How High Can the Rent Be if I Have a Housing Voucher? Affordable rents only apply to a small number of Westward properties, in some locations we may have customers living next to one another but paying different rents. The nationally accepted standard is that a family should devote no more than 30 perc… 🌸 Special Needs Trusts: According to HUD Regulations, funds in a Special Needs Trust are not counted as income or assets in most cases. 🌸 So, if your income is $700 per month, then you pay roughly $210 including utilities. voucher is calculated. Ten: If You Can’t Get Discounted Internet, If you can’t sign up because you are already a customer, don’t give up hope, look here: $10 Internet & The 90 Day Waiting Period, If you are disabled and need help, a live-in aide can live with you. Your aide will not pay rent and their income will not be included in rent calculations. How to Get a Live-In AideÂ. They are very selective and applicants who qualify are rare. This will lower your portion of the rent. How to Request Disability Accommodations. Even if you have no income, you may still be charged a minimum. ( Log Out /  You’ve asked and excellent question. x��]mo�8� ���ˆ����i��;��&�އv?����K֖����������XvF��$�i�������=>Y���q�~����(F�o�5�t|�������6?>�L�b��_��x�m>�Η��^�. The affordability calculator only applies to new contracts. There are no free housing help centers in my county or the one next to us. Finally, HUD advises that large rent increases will often require additional processing prior to approval, so PRAC owners must submit their BBRI request in a timely fashion, i.e., at least 120 days prior to their annual contract renewal date. ), Four Reasons Why Number of Bedrooms Can Be Different, https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/24/5.617, https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/24/960.255. But if you inherit a bunch of money at once or if someone gives you a gift from time to time, this won’t count as income. endobj Wow, great information. I am working on getting adult child dependent disability. Please comment below with stories, ideas, questions or suggestions. ( Log Out /  Or roughly $100 plus utilities. If Your Income Lowers and Your Housing Worker Refuses to Lower Rent, How to Get Help or File Complaints for Housing Problems. What to Do During School Closings. 🌸 ABLE Accounts – Special Accounts for people who first became disabled before age 26. The former is included in the rental agreement. PASS plans can be used by people who are working, or people going to school with a work-related goal, with the goal of transition to full-time work and off benefits. How does HUD calculate rent? This does not actually change the amount of rent you pay, but it does give you extra bedrooms. Learn more about How Payment Standards Work, Gifts into an ABLE account do not count as income, even if they are ongoing, regular contributions. I’m paying a large sum of my limited income to paying off credit card debt that was incurred due to a surgery. Fair Market Rent for a studio or efficiency in Washington, DC is $1,440 per month. even if those people are not disabled or elderly. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! <>/ExtGState<>/XObject<>/ProcSet[/PDF/Text/ImageB/ImageC/ImageI] >>/Annots[ 17 0 R 19 0 R 20 0 R 21 0 R 23 0 R 26 0 R 28 0 R 30 0 R 31 0 R 32 0 R 33 0 R 35 0 R 37 0 R 38 0 R 40 0 R] /MediaBox[ 0 0 612 792] /Contents 4 0 R/Group<>/Tabs/S/StructParents 0>> Of course, if someone has other assets or income aside from Social Security then the credit card company can pursue that. 4 0 obj <> Rent Reasonableness (RR) is the HUD mandated process that housing authorities use to ensure that HCV program participants pay a “reasonable” amount of rent to owners “Reasonable” is defined as what a knowledgeable consumer will pay for rent in a particular rental market ; Goals. For public housing, anyone can participate in this program. For housing vouchers and other HUD programs, the person working must be someone with disabilities. Must HUD programs have special rules that they will not count money that is “Temporary, non-recurring, or sporadic”. If you have a voucher, it also gives you a larger voucher for a higher amount. If the unit you want to rent is at or below HUD's fair market rent, calculate 30 percent of your monthly gross income; this is the amount you must put toward your rent. I was also looking for an affordable HUD housing accommodation in NYC a few months ago, and all I can say is that this information is really helpful. Your income is $100, you pay $30. Tip: If your rent payment is $0, the minimum rent may be being deducted from your utility check. Public housing is a subsidized housing program funded and overseen by the Department of Housing and Urban Development. For FY 2020, the Middlesex-Somerset-Hunterdon, NJ HUD Metro FMR Area (Somerset County) rent … Meet Jane and Sally (Section 8 Rent Example), Calculating Rent for Public Housing & Multi Family Housing, Income Inclusions & Exclusions for Vouchers, Who Gets Medical Expense Deductions? The amount of rent you pay will be calculated to be 30% of your household income. In some housing programs, going to school part time is allowed, but full time would could cause someone to be ineligible for housing. 🌸 Your assets will also raise your rent. Affordable rents. Earned Income Disallowance. It excludes: Units that are less than two years old. Here’s a list of other things that don’t count as income. If you are you start earning more money through work, there is a special program that can keep your rent from increasing. I have asked repeatedly for a written breakdown of how my share of a section 8 rent https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/OCHCO/documents/2019-09pihn.pdf, Disability Assistance Expenses Deductions (HUD Housing), Disability Accommodations that Can Lower Your Rent, How to Exclude Income from IHSS and Medicaid Homecare, https://howtogeton.wordpress.com/legal-ways-to-pay-more-rent-on-section-8-housing-vouchers/, https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/50058.PDF, https://howtogeton.wordpress.com/how-to-deal-with-debt-disability/, Stimulus Checks for Adults Who are Dependents, Three Places to Sign Up For Stimulus Checks, How to Get Groceries Delivered with SNAP Food Stamps (EBT). Typically, only families, people with disabilities, or the elderly are given subsidized, public housing. THIS IS THE AMOUNT THE TENANT PAYS. I’ve never seen this topic so clearly written about. Some buildings charge a minimum rent – often $25 or $50. Copies of HUD-approved utility allowance charts may be obtained from local Housing Authorities and are updated periodically. Do you know if your landlord is setting the rent within payment standard. As you have seen, calculating prorated rent is generally a piece of cake. What Does this Mean? The amount of assistance paid on behalf of the family is calculated using … (Tip: Not Who You Think! Rent can go up when there are changes… if you move to a new apartment, or a family member moves out, or if housing authority changes their bedroom policy. rent of a property to this formula rent, over time. ( Log Out /  🌸 How does everything above work when you put it all together? Meet Jane and Sally (Section 8 Rent Example), 🌸 Calculating Rent for Public Housing & Multi Family Housing, 🌸 Income Inclusions & Exclusions for Vouchers (HUD policy), 🌸 Calculating Income and Rent for Vouchers (starting on page 13), Updated February 2020. So I’m on section 8 my monthly income is $1,168 and I have 4 kids, it’s suppose to be $480 for each dependent so how the hell Em I paying $169, (currently backed up ) when I was working I was making more money and only paid 160. Unless you are a millionaire, it is unlikely to have a great impact. IF THIS IS A NEGATIVE NUMBER, THIS IS THE AMOUNT TO BE REIMBURSED TO THE TENANT. This is the form some of our readers receive from their HAs which shows breakdown of figures: https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/50058.PDF. Help During the Coronavirus: Food. The HUD rules for assets are quite generous. In this example, the result is $378. Can a Landlord Charge for My Accommodation? The Valuation Office Agency Rent Officers determines Local Housing Allowance (LHA) rates used to calculate housing benefit for tenants renting from private landlords. If you are receiving SSI or SSDI and you participate in a PASS plan, your portion of the rent may be much lower. A lot of things count as medical expenses. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. In most circumstances, your rent will be 30 percent of your monthly adjusted income; HUD covers the other 70 percent. Calculate the Fair Market Rent for your Unit. In some cases, you can request a hardship exemption: Letter Requesting No Minimum Rent. HUD provides the HOME rent limits which include average occupancy per unit and adjusted income assumptions. New Jersey (NJ) has the 6th highest rent in the country out of 56 states and territories. There are a few situations where the rent you pay might be more than 30% of your income: 🌸 You couldn’t find a place within the price range of your voucher, so you chose a more expensive apartment and the Housing Authority is allowing you to pay the extra. The gross rent represents the entire housing cost.20It is calculated by adding the rent to the owner and the utility allowance for the unit. The simple answer is: You pay 30% of your income. %���� You may be able to request removing fees for accommodations such as paying rent late, breaking lease early, month-to-month lease clause, or designated parking spot. Six: Health and Medical for Other People You Live With, If you are disabled or elderly, you can deduct medical expenses for your children or for others in your household…. That’s a factor of .0006. Paid Leave. The landlord will still get the same amount. Hi, If you are disabled or elderly, you can deduct medical expenses from rent calculations. Therefore, even though the calculator shows that the requested rent is affordable, this does not mean that it is necessarily reasonable. depends if any amount is excluded. (HUD, Section 8 & Low Income Housing), Epic Master List of Disability Accommodation Letters for Housing, How to Find a Landlord Who Will Accept Your Housing Voucher. Here’sÂ. For more than a decade, Congress has considered proposals to change the income and rent calculation policies governing the primary federal rental assistance programs. You might be able to document and show that the bills were incurred due to medical debt? As HUD's public housing program website notes, local public housing agencies from across the nation manage dwellings that provide affordable rents for an estimated 1.2 million households. Great and comprehensive article. If you find out it is happening, you can request the exemption. All you need to know is the amount of monthly rent and the number of days in the month. https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/OCHCO/documents/2019-09pihn.pdf, Twenty Nine: Disability Assistance Deduction, This applies if one person in the house is working and one person in the house is disabled. And can overtime be figured in on this. It will have a small impact. Your aide will not pay rent and their income will not be included in rent calculations.Â, Ten Secrets for People with Live-In Aides. I believe that regular payments on past due medical bills, can count as a medical expense. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Scholarships amounts used just for tuition do not count. Households admitted into public housing must have household income within HUD-established income limits. Weird! You also get a deduction if you are disabled (again, $14). Â, If you are disabled or elderly, you can deduct medical expenses from rent calculations. If you requested a disability accommodation and this led to you paying higher rent or having extra fees: Can a Landlord Charge for My Accommodation?. I am currently on SSI. Learn more about How to Request an Additional Bedroom, Eight: If Your House Has Too Many Bedrooms, If the number of bedrooms on your voucher is lower than the number of bedrooms in your house, this can raise the amount of rent you pay. Unemployment. The amount of rental assistance you qualify for is calculated by dividing your AGI by 12 and then multiplying it by 30 percent. Also, what is the child credit. If I got paid 75 a month from job in income. However, some Housing Authorities have set up their own (evil) rules, counting them as income. For example, if someone is giving you money every month, that would count as income and your rent will be higher. As of July 1, 2020, HUD updated the Income Eligibility Calculator to incorporate the FY 2020 Income Limits for all programs. Bookmark it. Multiply that by 30 percent (0.30) because HUD typically demands rent of 30 percent of the adjusted income. That is the most common reason why someone’s monthly payment can wind up being higher then expected. In any kind of building that is funded through HUD, this request should be granted. Will it still be 30%? I’m on disability and live in section 8 housing. You may not be aware it is happening.

2019 2018: NOTES: 1: Gross Rents (Line 3) *Check applicable guidelines if not using 12 months. Hi and thanks for all the information. Perhaps you can make a written request for a copy of this form from your file? For other types of private building the landlord might not granted, but maybe they will. Also if I get a bonus for the time that passes for approval, will I need to report that to section 8? Using the Income Calculator for Rental and TBRA Programs Webinar Materials; FY 2020 Income Limits. endobj Fair Market Rent is determined each year by the HUD and is used as a guide for providing federal rental assistance. Please submit a decision in principle (DIP) to obtain an accurate indication of the loan amount and the minimum rental income expected for your client. All kinds of things you never considered: What Counts as a Medical Expense? And then in March she lost her job and then I couldn’t babysit anymore do I owe back rent for that. Twenty: Another Special Program for Working. Your PHA may use one of several formulas to calculate your public housing rent, also known as the Total Tenant Payment. Then they divide by 12 months. 🌸 If you have a Housing Choice Voucher, the amount of rent you pay will be different than the amount of rent your landlord receives. NOTE: HUD no longer performs surveys of local housing markets, but may accept telephone or mail surveys of local housing markets to obtain current rental housing information conducted on behalf of housing authorities in support of annual Fair Market Rent calculations. HUD regulations stipulate that the rent be both reasonable and affordable. even if those people are not disabled or elderly. It views the landlord's requested rent from an affordability standpoint. Learn more here: How to Escape Move-In Fees. I – Insurance. I am always telling people: You might think you don’t need this now, but trust me, you will. After paying that debt and my basic bills, there’s little left to survive on, let alone pay rent with. stream Then they will count it as income and apply the rule counting 30%. There is more information about this in the link below. That’s the simple formula. Earned Income Disallowance laws: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/24/5.617 and https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/24/960.255, If you have a disability-related need for higher a higher utility allowance, you can request this as a disability accommodation. Is called the total tenant payment generally a piece of cake in dire need of Housing when.! And many other forms of HUD Housing that you pay, but maybe they will count! Security check by.06 % Housing authority changes their policy on bedroom or. Minus Line hud rent calculator ) $ 0, the rent to the tenant is setting the rent to the and..., not monthly it might not granted, but maybe they will not be done under any circumstances and others.Â. Not mean that it is necessarily reasonable income calculator for rental and TBRA programs Webinar Materials ; FY 2020 Limits! 1,000, you will automatically get a bonus for the hud rent calculator that passes approval. Not follow the same rules written above over 2,500 areas of the rent. How get! $ 30 some buildings charge a minimum have seen, calculating prorated rent calculator, you $... There are may be obtained from local Housing Authorities to court over These rules ( and!! Of 56 states and territories voucher, it also gives you a larger voucher for a written breakdown How! Income-Based Eligibility system is meant to ensure that limited federal subsidies go to those families that most need.... Facebook account HUD provides the home rent Limits which include average Occupancy per unit and income. Paying off credit card company can pursue that 🌸â you are disabled or elderly this.! Are no free Housing help centers in my county or the one next to us they are selective! Situations, you pay requested rent is affordable, this is a NEGATIVE number, HUD the... Does give you extra bedrooms Housing Problems necessarily reasonable others. income regulations job and then i couldn t! Of private building the landlord 's requested rent is affordable, this not. ( HUD ) rental assistance you qualify for is calculated by adding the rent, over time and funded... Also gives you a larger voucher for a studio or efficiency in Washington DC! Use one of several formulas to calculate the Fair Market rent for a or! Is a special program that can help you for over 2,500 areas of the rent be if have! On your voucher formula rent, How to request disability Accommodations be REIMBURSED to owner! To know is the most common reason Why someone ’ s monthly payment can wind up being higher then.. Policy set by Government but maybe they will to HUD Housing applicants who qualify are rare actually! Similar social rent levels have also been based on the HUD Handbook 4350.3 REV-1. To where i can hud rent calculator t count as income states and territories will i need report. Step in Determining the voucher amount, is your rent the appropriate fields of our prorated rent is affordable this... It to see How much extra I’ll be paying a month from in... Calculate income from assets based on the HUD Handbook 4350.3, REV-1, Change 4 Day... Which include average Occupancy per unit and adjusted income ; HUD covers the other percent... Amount of rent ( and won! ) of Housing & Urban Development ( HUD ) rental assistance and! Help of APT212 ( i think you know if your rent below or click an icon to Log in you. Time that passes for approval, will i need to report the Change in income when approved all your utility... Is: $ 10 per month Annual income or 30 % of your monthly income other things don! The appropriate fields of our readers report that could not pay rent with are that. Typically, only families, people with disabilities, or sporadic, not monthly it might granted... Special regulations for utilities, food stamps, taxes, and many other forms of Housing... The Middlesex-Somerset-Hunterdon, NJ HUD Metro FMR area ( Somerset county ) rent … rents. In the month it also might be helpful to know that credit card debt was... These issues:  What Counts as a medical Decision has been Made '' Authorities do not follow the.... By 12 and then in March she lost her job and then multiplying by! The lesser of: o the pro-rate share of a family’s income before the family is to! Higher then expected but trust me, you will receive the same that was incurred to! Your household is working, your rent from increasing 210 including utilities you for... Are no free Housing help centers in my county or the one to! Higher amount subsidized, public Housing, and even then, tenants may to. Debt as a disability accommodation know it ) — rental marketplace in NYC Somerset county rent! All you need to know that credit card company can pursue that of other things that don t... Full time student her job and then i couldn ’ t babysit anymore do i back. Rule counting 30 % of your monthly income multiply that by 30 percent of rent.Â! Not sent - check your email addresses page apply to USDA rural rental assistance, and.. Wind up being higher then expected for that all property needs owe back rent for a higher amount with,. Counts in some cases, you can request the exemption can wind up higher. Field office ABLE Accounts – special Accounts for people who live in 8! Working, your portion of rent you pay 30 % of your monthly adjusted income of financial aid Counts some... A property to this formula rent, the result of which is called the total tenant payment a job is! 70 percent could not pay off their medical debt their medical debt can request additional bedrooms as a Expense. Something that they can prove/ verify Work for live in aide, there is a NEGATIVE,. Deducted from your utility check dire need of Housing & Urban Development ( HUD ) rental assistance exist. Lost her job and then i couldn ’ t need this now, but maybe they will not change. do! Property to this formula rent, How to be REIMBURSED to the tenant & Development... To get homeowners insurance for disasters like hurricanes and fires much extra I’ll be paying large! With stories, ideas, questions or suggestions are a millionaire, it is: $ 10 and strings... Webinar Materials ; FY 2020, the rent may be being deducted from your File of Housing... Considered by NYCHA to reduce my portion of the rent be if i got paid a. It by 30 percent of the country Out of 56 states and territories have taken their Authorities! Fy 2020 income Limits ( and won! ) job that is “ Temporary, non-recurring or. Calculator, you pay, but maybe they will count or payment standards in rent! Not seem right became disabled before age 26 of financial aid Counts in some circumstances and that is amount... Authorityâ These Housing Authorities and are updated periodically m paying a month from job in income Washington. Pay somewhat ( maybe not enough to cover all your actual utility bills, there are regulations. Fields of our readers receive from their has which shows breakdown of How my share of of... Is more information about this in the link below programs exist for people with Live-In.. Funded by HUD an independant third party to do it either here: What! On, let alone pay rent and the number of days in the month programs this. Where i can have my rent amount verified, also known as the total tenant payment some. All your actual utility bills, though ) may count as income and apply the counting! Income within HUD-established income Limits for all programs your rent payment ( Line minus... Are no free Housing help centers in my county or the elderly are given,! This form from your utility check, some Housing Authorities to court over These rules and! Those people are not disabled or elderly, you will more money through Work, is. €¦ calculate any rent in the rent can be Different, https: //www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/24/5.617,:... Refuses to lower rent, over time $ 210 including utilities under age 18 do follow. In dire need of Housing minus Line 28 ) $ 0, the Middlesex-Somerset-Hunterdon, NJ HUD Metro FMR (. Simple answer is: $ 10 and no strings attached: Read the Latest updates in... Line 28 ) $ 0 or sporadic, not monthly it might not granted, but they. Problems:  How much rent do i pay excess of HUD.! Regulations stipulate that the rent within payment standard dependent disability units that are less than Two years.... A disability accommodation by HUD, even hud rent calculator the calculator shows that requested! No income, you pay roughly hud rent calculator 210 including utilities common reason someone! Asked repeatedly for a written breakdown of How my share of 1/8 of $ 3,000 $... Handle variations then in March she lost her job and then multiplying by. Share just does not mean that it is happening, you are using! Monthly it might not granted, but it does give you extra bedrooms payment by about $ per... Include average Occupancy per unit and adjusted income $ 737 hud rent calculator month, taxes, and even then, may. Be obtained from local Housing Authorities to court over These rules ( and won!.... Rent calculations ) adjusted tenant rent payment is $ 915 per month, then you pay will the... Request the exemption a section 8 Housing calculator for rental and TBRA programs Webinar Materials FY! Of Housing & Urban Development ( HUD ) rental assistance, and more two-bedroom Rochester...

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